I’m so happy you now have a good copy, Dennis! Congratulations. And looking forward to your images!
I finally managed to get out a perform a quick test of the replacement 200-800mm lens and there is a huge difference in IQ when compared to the defective (coma) original copy that I purchased.

This was taken in our back garden and the Rainbow Lorikeet was some 8 metres away and very active in the bird bath. Even at ISO6400 the shot was a bit underexposed to get me 1/800 sec shutter speed at F9.

#1 is a full res 1600x1600 crop SOC.
#2 is with Topaz AI DeNoise Applied.

Dennis

#1 is a full res 1600x1600 crop SOC.
R5 IMGA7063 Crop 1600 RAW.jpg


#2 is with Topaz AI DeNoise Default Settings applied.
R5 IMGA7063 Crop 1600 AIDN.jpg
 
Got It On Day 0, Shot These Day 1:
All images taken hand-held, available light, with the Canon EOS R6MkII, seriously downsized in PS, with standard corrections.

Very impressed with this lens, so it's a keeper!

Reclusive Red Panda shot from 10m - 600mm, f/9, 1/500sec, ISO-6400
R62A1739 VLR copy.jpg

Colourful Australian Gouldian Finch, shot from 5m - 800mm, f/9, 1/400sec, ISO-6400
R62A1786 copy.jpg
 
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Just for completion here is the final processed photo.

Dennis

Final processed photo.
View attachment 36733
Well, looks like you have an excellent copy now, Dennis. This is indeed the quality one would expect from this lens, based on reviews and also on the fact that Canon wouldn’t launch a lens as bad as your first copy was. Congratulations!
 
The images are excellent, Trevor. Very sharp with great detail. Just like Dennis’s parrot.

This lens is very tempting…
That extra weight though, I would be up to the Tamron 150-600 mass and bulk again, I was starting to find that hard work. The 100-500 is so compact and light.

Now we probably have a few people with both lenses might be worth them commenting on how they find the mass/size difference for carrying around as well as use.
 
That extra weight though, I would be up to the Tamron 150-600 mass and bulk again, I was starting to find that hard work. The 100-500 is so compact and light.

Now we probably have a few people with both lenses might be worth them commenting on how they find the mass/size difference for carrying around as well as use.
The weight, yes. But then, I shot with 1D bodies, that’s about 1.4kg with battery. Add a 1.3kg lens and you have a 2.7kg combo. More with the 1.4xTC attached. My R6II weighs about 700 gr, paired with the 200-800 would be 2050+700 = about the same as my old gear.

Having said that, the lighter package of my R6II (700gr) & 100-500mm (1.53kg) is nice.
 
I like my R6ii and 100-500 but also like it with the R7 it becomes a 160-800, basically the 200-800 on a FF but a lot less weight.

I am first on the list at Hunts Providence RI but still agonizing about it. The R6ii ISO performance blows away the R7 but the R7 the 200-800 becomes a 320-1280, that is great on big water for birds.

What I have been doing is the R6ii on the RF 100-400 and the R7 on the 100-500 w/ 1.4x i.e. 672-1120 (300-500 w 1.4x) if the 100-500 had the full range with the extender it would be a no brainer....
 
I like my R6ii and 100-500 but also like it with the R7 it becomes a 160-800, basically the 200-800 on a FF but a lot less weight.

I am first on the list at Hunts Providence RI but still agonizing about it. The R6ii ISO performance blows away the R7 but the R7 the 200-800 becomes a 320-1280, that is great on big water for birds.

What I have been doing is the R6ii on the RF 100-400 and the R7 on the 100-500 w/ 1.4x i.e. 672-1120 (300-500 w 1.4x) if the 100-500 had the full range with the extender it would be a no brainer....
I may be sticking my neck out here, but on a totally personal basis, I was utterly disappointed in the R7. I had the 7D and 7DII, and hoped for a camera of the same ilk as a flagship APS-C camera. IMHO, it was built to a price and has serious flaws both in terms of its technical design and the marketing of it (not the first time, thinking of the R5 video marketing). Canon pulled back on the analogy with the 7DII and instead said it was a replacement for the 90D, and maybe it was, but I didn't like that much either.

The physical build was not as robust as the 7D series, and it did not take a battery grip, which is really helpful for long lenses, both to balance the weight of the optic , but more for the duplicate portrait controls. Turning the camera 90 deg to portrait is no great issue with a smaller, lighter lens, but with a big, heavy lens, it's not ergonomically great.

Like the 90D, the R7 crammed 32MP into an APS-C creating a massive pixel density, in fact it is the equivalent of running a FF sensor at 83MP, which no maker has attempted. So, it will be at risk from noise in low light, high ISO condition.

Then we come to the data bus. One of the major points touted for the R7 was its fast frame rate or 30fps, however that was with a full electronic shutter. Pushing that much data through from sensor to card requires very fast read speeds, a fast processor and a big buffer. The issue is that the R7 has none of these. The electronic shutter requires the sensor to refresh to capture the image at speed. However, unlike the 23MP R3, Its sensor is not stack or BSI, so its read speed is slow, and that results in significant rolling shutter, so if one is panning to follow a subject the background verticals will be bent over. Not a good look, IMHO.

Once the data is captured by the shutter it goes to the processor, but it has only one and it's not the latest so that is another bottle neck. Then we come to the buffer which is not large enough - if you are shooing in RAW, you get 1.2 sec of shooting before the buffer fills up! That is not impressive, and part of the reason is because it uses SD cards that don't download data fast enough for the amount coming to them, thus depending on the buffer even more to hold the line.

The alternative is to use mechanical shutter at 11fps, but it is really, really noise and can suffer from mechanical vibration. That is more of an issue with wildlife, but it does sound like a tinker's cart.

Finally, we come to focusing. Being a mirrorless system, it focuses using the sensor, and with that many focus points, it has issues with the processor so that it can pulse as it keeps trying to find focus faster than the processor can handle it, so it will focus, miss focus, focus miss focus. It used a cut-down version of the FF systems and has a tendency to pulse - and this is well documented on the Canon community site where I do support work.

For that reason, I went for the R5 (corrected from R7), which offers a FF sensor of 45MP, brilliant tracking (which has improved over several firmware updates) and allows me to go into 1.3 or 1.6 crop modes to get the FoV boost for telephoto work. Even at 1.6 crop mode, where the pixel count is reduced by a factor of 2.56, it still renders images of 17.5MP, which for me, is more than enough. Much depends in what media one is going to produce a final product. It takes different gear for a very large, detailed Fine Art print for sale, compared to social media, digital displays, or modest prints.

Again, I emphasize that this is my personal perspective, but I hope you can see the basis of my logic.
 
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I may be sticking my neck out here, but on a totally personal basis, I was utterly disappointed in the R7. I had the 7D and 7DII, and hoped for a camera of the same ilk as a flagship APS-C camera. IMHO, it was built to a price and has serious flaws both in terms of its technical design and the marketing of it (not the first time, thinking of the R5 video marketing). Canon pulled back on the analogy with the 7DII and instead said it was a replacement for the 90D, and maybe it was, but I didn't like that much either.

The physical build was not as robust, and it did not take a battery grip, which is really helpful for long lenses, both to balance the weight of the optic , but more for the duplicate portrait controls. Turning the camera 90 to portrait is no great issue with a smaller lighter lens, but with a big, heavy lens, it's not ergonomically great.

Like the 90D, the R7 crammed 32MP into an APS-C creating a massive pixel density, in fact it is the equivalent of running a FF sensor at 83MP, which no maker has attempted. So, it will be at rick from noise in low light, high ISO condition.

Then we come to the data bus. One of the major points touted for the R7 was its fast frame rate or 30fps, however that was with an electronic shutter. Pushing that much data through from sensor to card requires very fast read speeds, a fast processor and a big buffer. The issue is that the R7 has none of these. The electronic shutter requires the sensor to refresh to capture the image at speed. However, unlike the R3, Its sensor is not stack or BSI, so its read speed is slow, and that results in significant rolling shutter, so if one is panning to follow a subject the background verticals will be bent over. Not a good look, IMHO.

Once the data is captured by the shutter it goes to the processor, but it has only one and it's not the latest so that is another bottle neck. Then we come to the buffer which is not large enough - if you are shooing in RAW, you get 1.2 sec of shooting before the buffer fills up. That is not impressive, and part of the reason is because it uses SD cards that don't download data for the amount coming to them, thus depending on the buffer even more to hold the line.

The alternative is to use mechanical shutter at 11fps, but it is really, really noise and can suffer from mechanical vibration. That is more of an issue with wildlife, but it does sound like a tinker's cart.

Finally, we come to focusing. Being a mirrorless system, it focuses using the sensor, and with that many focus points, it has issues with the processor so that it can pulse as it keeps trying to find focus faster than the processor can handle it, so it will focus, miss focus, focus miss focus. It used a cut-down version of the FF systems and has a tendency to pulse - and this is well documented on the Canon community site where I do support work.

For that reason, I went for the R7, which offers a FF sensor of 45MP, brilliant tracking (which has improved over several firmware updates) and allows me to go into 1.3 or 1.6 crop modes to get the FoV boost for telephoto work. Even at 1.6 crop mode, where the pixel count is reduced by a factor of 2.56, it still renders images of 17.5MP, which for me, is more than enough. Much depends in what media one is going to produce a final product. It takes different gear for a very large, detailed Fine Art print for sale, compared to social media, digital displays, or modest prints.

Again, I emphasize that this is my personal perspective, but I hope you can see the basis of my logic.
Totally agree with you, all your points are why I discounted buying an R7. That said I know there are a lot of very happy R7 users, just not for us :)
 
>snip
For that reason, I went for the R7, which offers a FF sensor of 45MP, brilliant tracking (which has improved over several firmware updates) and allows me to go into 1.3 or 1.6 crop modes to get the FoV boost for telephoto work.

Did you mean to type R5?

Dennis
 
I may be sticking my neck out here, but on a totally personal basis, I was utterly disappointed in the R7. I had the 7D and 7DII, and hoped for a camera of the same ilk as a flagship APS-C camera. IMHO, it was built to a price and has serious flaws both in terms of its technical design and the marketing of it (not the first time, thinking of the R5 video marketing). Canon pulled back on the analogy with the 7DII and instead said it was a replacement for the 90D, and maybe it was, but I didn't like that much either.

The physical build was not as robust, and it did not take a battery grip, which is really helpful for long lenses, both to balance the weight of the optic , but more for the duplicate portrait controls. Turning the camera 90 to portrait is no great issue with a smaller lighter lens, but with a big, heavy lens, it's not ergonomically great.

Like the 90D, the R7 crammed 32MP into an APS-C creating a massive pixel density, in fact it is the equivalent of running a FF sensor at 83MP, which no maker has attempted. So, it will be at rick from noise in low light, high ISO condition.

Then we come to the data bus. One of the major points touted for the R7 was its fast frame rate or 30fps, however that was with an electronic shutter. Pushing that much data through from sensor to card requires very fast read speeds, a fast processor and a big buffer. The issue is that the R7 has none of these. The electronic shutter requires the sensor to refresh to capture the image at speed. However, unlike the R3, Its sensor is not stack or BSI, so its read speed is slow, and that results in significant rolling shutter, so if one is panning to follow a subject the background verticals will be bent over. Not a good look, IMHO.

Once the data is captured by the shutter it goes to the processor, but it has only one and it's not the latest so that is another bottle neck. Then we come to the buffer which is not large enough - if you are shooing in RAW, you get 1.2 sec of shooting before the buffer fills up. That is not impressive, and part of the reason is because it uses SD cards that don't download data for the amount coming to them, thus depending on the buffer even more to hold the line.

The alternative is to use mechanical shutter at 11fps, but it is really, really noise and can suffer from mechanical vibration. That is more of an issue with wildlife, but it does sound like a tinker's cart.

Finally, we come to focusing. Being a mirrorless system, it focuses using the sensor, and with that many focus points, it has issues with the processor so that it can pulse as it keeps trying to find focus faster than the processor can handle it, so it will focus, miss focus, focus miss focus. It used a cut-down version of the FF systems and has a tendency to pulse - and this is well documented on the Canon community site where I do support work.

For that reason, I went for the R5, which offers a FF sensor of 45MP, brilliant tracking (which has improved over several firmware updates) and allows me to go into 1.3 or 1.6 crop modes to get the FoV boost for telephoto work. Even at 1.6 crop mode, where the pixel count is reduced by a factor of 2.56, it still renders images of 17.5MP, which for me, is more than enough. Much depends in what media one is going to produce a final product. It takes different gear for a very large, detailed Fine Art print for sale, compared to social media, digital displays, or modest prints.

Again, I emphasize that this is my personal perspective, but I hope you can see the basis of my logic.
I purchased the R7 right after it was launched. It seemed the perfect accompaniment to my R6. I ran into the issues you describe. I could live with a lot of the downsides but the thing I couldn’t live with was how noisy the files were at ISO speeds that weren’t even that high. I see some folks post great images taken with the R7, but I’m not entirely sure how they do it.

With the R7 I could shoot at higher ISO speeds (1600 and up), but then I couldn‘t crop because the noise was horrendous. I could crop substantially at low ISO speeds but living where I do I need to shoot at higher ISO speeds most of the time. So I returned the camera.
 
I find it curious that the recent lens releases from Canon have all been lenses that I really don't currently need. I already have a fine ef 100-400mm f5.6 LIS II. So, while I admire the RF 100-500 LIS...it's not a lens I particaulrly need.
Then there's the new RF 10-20mm F4 L, again, this range is covered by my substantially heavier and larger EF 11-24mm f4L. But I get to place a filter behind that lens with a drop in adapter. I can't do that with the newer RF version.
Then there's the new RF 100-300mm f2.8 lens. Again another fine lens, one which I admire greatly...I just don't need it. Because I have a stunning ef 400mm f2.8 LIS II.

Which brings me onto the new RF 200-800.. f9 LIS, the subject of this thread. Again, I can see it's uses and versatility. Again i greatly admire it....but between my ef 100-400mm f5.6 LIS II and my EF 400mm f2.8 with a 2x TC, I really don't have the need. My prime is sharper (even with a tele-coverter), fast AF and better IS...better weather sealing and 2.5 stops brighter.

Currently, the only RF lens that appeals to me is the wee RF 16mm f2.8 as a dimunuative travel lens.
So while I'm not in the market for any of these lenses...i am enjoying the images you guys are producing and the commentary.
Blessings!
 
I find it curious that the recent lens releases from Canon have all been lenses that I really don't currently need. I already have a fine ef 100-400mm f5.6 LIS II. So, while I admire the RF 100-500 LIS...it's not a lens I particaulrly need.
Then there's the new RF 10-20mm F4 L, again, this range is covered by my substantially heavier and larger EF 11-24mm f4L. But I get to place a filter behind that lens with a drop in adapter. I can't do that with the newer RF version.
Then there's the new RF 100-300mm f2.8 lens. Again another fine lens, one which I admire greatly...I just don't need it. Because I have a stunning ef 400mm f2.8 LIS II.

Which brings me onto the new RF 200-800.. f9 LIS, the subject of this thread. Again, I can see it's uses and versatility. Again i greatly admire it....but between my ef 100-400mm f5.6 LIS II and my EF 400mm f2.8 with a 2x TC, I really don't have the need. My prime is sharper (even with a tele-coverter), fast AF and better IS...better weather sealing and 2.5 stops brighter.

Currently, the only RF lens that appeals to me is the wee RF 16mm f2.8 as a dimunuative travel lens.
So while I'm not in the market for any of these lenses...i am enjoying the images you guys are producing and the commentary.
Blessings!
I agree with many of the points you make - especially the choice of lenses that Canon has introduced lately.
I too still own several EF lenses for the two points you mentioned - great lenses with the ability to use drop-in filters.

But as for the 200-800, I think Canon hit a (good) nerve with that one. A lot of people were wishing for a low cost, high focal length zoom with good image quality and this one appears to check those boxes. I had the EF 500mm f/4L IS but sold it as soon as this lens was introduced. I never liked lugging the 500mm around even though it took outstanding images. I know that I will use the 200-800mm more often. I just need to find someone that has one in stock!
 
Wow. Bold move. The weight difference between the two lenses is huge though. After the 500/4L, handling the 200-800mm should be a breeze!
It was time. I had it for a long time and it paid for itself several times over - but it was a hassle to transport and shoot. My version 1 was very heavy but very well built so it was flawless.

I've had my eye on the EF400 f/4 DO IS II for a while as a replacement for both my EF300 and EF500. But this 200-800 seems near perfect for me and my style of shooting.
 
I may be sticking my neck out here, but on a totally personal basis, I was utterly disappointed in the R7. I had the 7D and 7DII, and hoped for a camera of the same ilk as a flagship APS-C camera. IMHO, it was built to a price and has serious flaws both in terms of its technical design and the marketing of it (not the first time, thinking of the R5 video marketing). Canon pulled back on the analogy with the 7DII and instead said it was a replacement for the 90D, and maybe it was, but I didn't like that much either.

The physical build was not as robust, and it did not take a battery grip, which is really helpful for long lenses, both to balance the weight of the optic , but more for the duplicate portrait controls. Turning the camera 90 to portrait is no great issue with a smaller lighter lens, but with a big, heavy lens, it's not ergonomically great.

Like the 90D, the R7 crammed 32MP into an APS-C creating a massive pixel density, in fact it is the equivalent of running a FF sensor at 83MP, which no maker has attempted. So, it will be at rick from noise in low light, high ISO condition.

Then we come to the data bus. One of the major points touted for the R7 was its fast frame rate or 30fps, however that was with an electronic shutter. Pushing that much data through from sensor to card requires very fast read speeds, a fast processor and a big buffer. The issue is that the R7 has none of these. The electronic shutter requires the sensor to refresh to capture the image at speed. However, unlike the R3, Its sensor is not stack or BSI, so its read speed is slow, and that results in significant rolling shutter, so if one is panning to follow a subject the background verticals will be bent over. Not a good look, IMHO.

Once the data is captured by the shutter it goes to the processor, but it has only one and it's not the latest so that is another bottle neck. Then we come to the buffer which is not large enough - if you are shooing in RAW, you get 1.2 sec of shooting before the buffer fills up. That is not impressive, and part of the reason is because it uses SD cards that don't download data for the amount coming to them, thus depending on the buffer even more to hold the line.

The alternative is to use mechanical shutter at 11fps, but it is really, really noise and can suffer from mechanical vibration. That is more of an issue with wildlife, but it does sound like a tinker's cart.

Finally, we come to focusing. Being a mirrorless system, it focuses using the sensor, and with that many focus points, it has issues with the processor so that it can pulse as it keeps trying to find focus faster than the processor can handle it, so it will focus, miss focus, focus miss focus. It used a cut-down version of the FF systems and has a tendency to pulse - and this is well documented on the Canon community site where I do support work.

For that reason, I went for the R5, which offers a FF sensor of 45MP, brilliant tracking (which has improved over several firmware updates) and allows me to go into 1.3 or 1.6 crop modes to get the FoV boost for telephoto work. Even at 1.6 crop mode, where the pixel count is reduced by a factor of 2.56, it still renders images of 17.5MP, which for me, is more than enough. Much depends in what media one is going to produce a final product. It takes different gear for a very large, detailed Fine Art print for sale, compared to social media, digital displays, or modest prints.

Again, I emphasize that this is my personal perspective, but I hope you can see the basis of my logic.
Also agree with you. Like Levina I had added it as a companion to my R6, kept it for a year, but it was an easy decision to sell it to fund the 200-800. The R7 was just too much of a compromise for me. I could work around some of the compromises, but rolling shutter effects in electronic and the mechanical shutter sound were 2 I could not get past. Mechanical was like hearing large hailstones impacting a corrugated metal roof. I distinctly remember the mechanical shutter scaring off a fox that was 50yds from me. I applaud those that are happy with it and there are excellent images I see here and elsewhere, it was just not for me. I do hold out some hope that if a future R7II comes to pass at some point, it'll be a true 7D2 replacement.

Anyway, back on topic, the 200-800 seems like a nice partner to my 100-400II and the images coming from it are pretty solid. It's how I envisioned it last year. However, I do admit though that the longer it takes for backorders to be fulfilled, and it seems it'll still be a long time, the more the funds burn a hole in my PayPal account. I already swapped out the 16-35 for a 14-35, and really toss around the idea of either a V1 500 F4 (I almost bought Mr Roboto's but I hesitated, and someone beat me to it and got a stellar deal) or moving from my R6 to an R5.
 
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The comments here sort of verify the reservations I had about the R7 and line up with what others have told me and locals who have this body. I had a 7DII and used it extensively even though that was the one camera body I had that was clearly designed for right handed people. As a lefty it was more difficult to use than my FF mirrored bodies. I chose Canon in the first place many years ago because it was so lefty friendly and it mostly stayed that way with the exception of the 7DII although I took tens of thousands of images with it!!!

The R7 doesn't really appeal to me due to comments from others, so when I got a second body I went with the R6II. It has its weird quirks which sometimes are maddening but overall I am very fond of it. And the IQ is great. The raw files are beautiful. I felt the same way about my old 6D. The body had serious limitations (AF) but the raw files were absolutely beautiful.

Still on the fence about the 200-800.

A note to gmcphotographics: The RF 16mm f2.8 is a great lens especially for the price. I got it on sale from Canon for about $200 a while back. A bargain. And it's small enough to go everywhere. It went all over Europe with me last summer, along with the budget priced and very compact RF 24-105 STM.
 
I purchased the R7 right after it was launched. It seemed the perfect accompaniment to my R6. I ran into the issues you describe. I could live with a lot of the downsides but the thing I couldn’t live with was how noisy the files were at ISO speeds that weren’t even that high. I see some folks post great images taken with the R7, but I’m not entirely sure how they do it.

With the R7 I could shoot at higher ISO speeds (1600 and up), but then I couldn‘t crop because the noise was horrendous. I could crop substantially at low ISO speeds but living where I do I need to shoot at higher ISO speeds most of the time. So I returned the camera.
Here in NZ, if one buys a camera, you can't return it unless it is actually defective, so if the issue is one of poor image quality that is not usually enough. On the other hand, camera gear comes with a 5-year warranty. So, I just research a lot before I buy!
 
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